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RE: July/August 2ww club

kiwi25 — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 16:33:58 GMT

Ok girls, new thread started for August/September!

Thanks Nicole for keeping me on my toes :D

RE: July/August 2ww club

kiwi25 — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 15:31:54 GMT

[quote][b]heath8401 (8/7/2008)[/b][hr]YAY TO MAY BABIES!!!!!!!!

I'm getting tired and I feel badly sometimes for DH as PP all teh pressure I try not to make it seem like that make it interested or spontaneous but sometimes I think he think's about it too much...

We're BD every day and sometimes 2x so if this doesn't work then I give up.

Good luck and lots of baby dust to everyone![/quote]

Good luck to you too, Heather!

RE: July/August 2ww club

heath8401 — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 15:26:02 GMT

YAY TO MAY BABIES!!!!!!!!

I'm getting tired and I feel badly sometimes for DH as PP all teh pressure I try not to make it seem like that make it interested or spontaneous but sometimes I think he think's about it too much...

We're BD every day and sometimes 2x so if this doesn't work then I give up.

Good luck and lots of baby dust to everyone!

RE: July/August 2ww club

MrsSofaQueen — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 15:18:55 GMT

[quote][b]beaniebaby (8/7/2008)[/b][hr]LOL

Here's a toast to all our 2WW'ers... Here's to a MAY baby![/quote]

Good luck with the HPT and a May baby!

RE: July/August 2ww club

kiwi25 — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 15:13:43 GMT

[quote][b]beaniebaby (8/7/2008)[/b][hr]LOL

Here's a toast to all our 2WW'ers... Here's to a MAY baby![/quote]

*clinks glass*

RE: July/August 2ww club

muirhead — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 15:12:23 GMT

[quote][b]beaniebaby (8/7/2008)[/b][hr]LOL

Here's a toast to all our 2WW'ers... Here's to a MAY baby![/quote]

I'm kind of lucky cause I get 2 chances to have a May baby. If we are pregnant this cycle my EDD would be May 1 if we get pregnant next cycle my EDD would be May 27.

Here is to hoping for a May baby!!!!

RE: July/August 2ww club

beaniebaby — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 15:05:51 GMT

LOL

Here's a toast to all our 2WW'ers... Here's to a MAY baby!

RE: July/August 2ww club

kiwi25 — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 15:02:16 GMT

[quote][b]beaniebaby (8/7/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]kiwi25 (8/7/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]beaniebaby (8/7/2008)[/b][hr]Well Kirsty, I was optimistic about this cycle, and somehow, it's changed.. not so optimistic anymore...

But maybe next month for us right?![/quote]

Darn right!! A May baby sounds just perfect to me :D[/quote]

I'm a May baby! I would love a May baby! May is a WONDERFUL month!!

lol[/quote]

Yeah, its been a running joke in my family (several family members are born in May) that "May is such a lousy month for a birthday" (meaning the exact opposite...that its one of the nicest months of the year with all the leaves and flowers coming back and the temp warming up, etc.) I don't know why that's funny, its just been something my dad has teased my mom and gramma with for pretty much my whole life!

RE: July/August 2ww club

beaniebaby — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 15:00:37 GMT

[quote][b]kiwi25 (8/7/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]beaniebaby (8/7/2008)[/b][hr]Well Kirsty, I was optimistic about this cycle, and somehow, it's changed.. not so optimistic anymore...

But maybe next month for us right?![/quote]

Darn right!! A May baby sounds just perfect to me :D[/quote]

I'm a May baby! I would love a May baby! May is a WONDERFUL month!!

lol

RE: July/August 2ww club

kiwi25 — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 14:59:25 GMT

[quote][b]beaniebaby (8/7/2008)[/b][hr]Well Kirsty, I was optimistic about this cycle, and somehow, it's changed.. not so optimistic anymore...

But maybe next month for us right?![/quote]

Darn right!! A May baby sounds just perfect to me :D

ETA: thanks Nicole :) I am fine assuming this cycle was a bust...I am just going about life assuming we will try again next month, and if I happened to get a shocking and wonderful surprise next week, so much the better!

RE: July/August 2ww club

muirhead — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 14:59:21 GMT

[quote][b]beaniebaby (8/7/2008)[/b][hr]LOL AF is due on Sunday, if I'm a 26 day cycle (I was typically 27, but because of stress, the last 2 months have been whacky... 23 days once!!!)

So either sunday or monday AF is due... and I'm noticing a LOT of nipple tenderness... but I'm not sure if I remember that from the last couple months...

Well, we'll see! I'll be testing again tomorrow AM... I'm going to my cottage, and I wouldn't want to drink, if I shouldn't be....

FX![/quote]

I'm still holding out for you Kirsty!!! You did BD around when you thought your OV'd so maybe....just maybe........

RE: July/August 2ww club

beaniebaby — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 14:58:34 GMT

Well Kirsty, I was optimistic about this cycle, and somehow, it's changed.. not so optimistic anymore...

But maybe next month for us right?!

RE: July/August 2ww club

kiwi25 — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 14:56:06 GMT

[quote][b]beaniebaby (8/7/2008)[/b][hr]LOL AF is due on Sunday, if I'm a 26 day cycle (I was typically 27, but because of stress, the last 2 months have been whacky... 23 days once!!!)

So either sunday or monday AF is due... and I'm noticing a LOT of nipple tenderness... but I'm not sure if I remember that from the last couple months...

Well, we'll see! I'll be testing again tomorrow AM... I'm going to my cottage, and I wouldn't want to drink, if I shouldn't be....

FX![/quote]

Very weirdly (given my wonky cycle/cyst this month), I have also had a lot of nipple tenderness since my temp went up. Especially on the right - OW!! Not something I usually get at any point in my cycle, but I don't think its a symptom either...probably just something to do with my hormones being out of whack right now.

RE: July/August 2ww club

beaniebaby — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 14:52:14 GMT

LOL AF is due on Sunday, if I'm a 26 day cycle (I was typically 27, but because of stress, the last 2 months have been whacky... 23 days once!!!)

So either sunday or monday AF is due... and I'm noticing a LOT of nipple tenderness... but I'm not sure if I remember that from the last couple months...

Well, we'll see! I'll be testing again tomorrow AM... I'm going to my cottage, and I wouldn't want to drink, if I shouldn't be....

FX!

RE: July/August 2ww club

kiwi25 — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 14:49:13 GMT

[quote][b]beaniebaby (8/7/2008)[/b][hr]Sorry I've been out today ladies!

I've been super busy at work...

I tested this morning, and I'm pretty sure it's gonna be one BFN after another. I used a dollarama test....

Then I had another first response that I left in the car in million degree heat (not supposed to...) so I tried that at lunch today, and I'm pretty sure I saw ghosting of a line. I asked my sister though, and she kinda giggled, and told me that I'm seeing things, because I WANT to see that line so bad LOL

I just wish it would happen for us... I want to see those lines!!!! It sucks and we're only 3 or so months in!!![/quote]

Well, here's hoping its a real faint second line! Are you going to test tomorrow morning again? I'm going away on Saturday till Wednesday and don't want to miss your big announcement, lol!

RE: July/August 2ww club

muirhead — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 14:46:46 GMT

[quote][b]beaniebaby (8/7/2008)[/b][hr]Sorry I've been out today ladies!

I've been super busy at work...

I tested this morning, and I'm pretty sure it's gonna be one BFN after another. I used a dollarama test....

I just wish it would happen for us... I want to see those lines!!!! It sucks and we're only 3 or so months in!!![/quote]

HANG in there Jenn our BFP will come your likely still just too early. When is AF due again? I think I remember you saying this weekend right?

RE: July/August 2ww club

muirhead — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 14:44:52 GMT

[quote][b]chantsy (8/7/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]SofaQueen (8/7/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]chantsy (8/7/2008)[/b][hr]

As for me, I was worried about my CF and tried taking Robitussin with lots and lots of water and I don't know if that did it or if it's just a coincidence but I've definately got lots of EWCF today!!!!! I'm on CD16 today and my chart looks so pretty, I hope it keeps going that way and that I see a temp shift soon. Can't wait for DH to get home!!!!![/quote]

Good luck with the charting!

Just make sure not to put too much pressure on your DH. It seems like some men get stage fright when it's time to perform from various posts I've seen. [/quote]

Duly noted! Thanks for the tip! ;)[/quote]

I second this as my DH has had this happen more then once :cool: Maybe just wear something sexy and don't mention baby until after he is done :w00t:

RE: July/August 2ww club

beaniebaby — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 14:44:45 GMT

Sorry I've been out today ladies!

I've been super busy at work...

I tested this morning, and I'm pretty sure it's gonna be one BFN after another. I used a dollarama test....

I just wish it would happen for us... I want to see those lines!!!! It sucks and we're only 3 or so months in!!!

RE: July/August 2ww club

chantsy — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 14:22:53 GMT

[quote][b]kiwi25 (8/7/2008)[/b][hr]Good luck, Chantsy! :)[/quote]

Thanks Kirsty!:D

RE: July/August 2ww club

kiwi25 — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 14:16:13 GMT

Good luck, Chantsy! :)

RE: July/August 2ww club

chantsy — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 13:37:03 GMT

[quote][b]SofaQueen (8/7/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]chantsy (8/7/2008)[/b][hr]

Good luck with the charting!

Just make sure not to put too much pressure on your DH. It seems like some men get stage fright when it's time to perform from various posts I've seen. [/quote]

Duly noted! Thanks for the tip! ;)

RE: July/August 2ww club

MrsSofaQueen — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 13:33:26 GMT

[quote][b]chantsy (8/7/2008)[/b][hr]

Good luck with the charting!

Just make sure not to put too much pressure on your DH. It seems like some men get stage fright when it's time to perform from various posts I've seen.

RE: July/August 2ww club

chantsy — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 13:17:59 GMT

MrsM, I'm sorry about what you have to go through right now. Byt the sounds of it, you are a very strong woman and what doesn't kill you makes you stronger so alls I have to say to everyone is watchout when you come out of this stronger than you ever were. You have to go through the tough times to appreciate the good and with all the tough times you've been through there's a whole lot of good coming your way. I'm sure of it.

SofaQueen (Candace is it?), I hope you get your BFP when you do decide to test! Good luck!!!

RE: July/August 2ww club

MrsSofaQueen — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 12:01:03 GMT

[quote][b]muirhead (8/7/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]SofaQueen (8/7/2008)[/b][hr]Good Morning Ladies! I just skimmed through the last few pages of stuff, so I'm not totally up to speed today.

MrsM - Sorry to hear you are having a rough time with your hubby. I don't have any advice, but I think you have the courage and strength to get through this.

Janelle - hopefully you can get started with the BD'ing next month!

As for me, on Friday we went to see my uncle who had cancer and he has since passed away, and that happened on Tuesday evening. The funeral will be either Friday or Saturday, so that's sad news. However, life is a cycle with a beginning and an end, so it was his time. I feel really bab for my aunt b/c she is alone now and they never had any children, so that's sad.

As for other events, I o'ed 10 days ago and we had BD'ed at the appropriate time, so I suppose I could take a HPT, but I think I'll wait until Saturday or Sunday b/c I don't want to waste a perfectly good test in the event AF shows up. It is possible that something happened, but I'm not too interested in finding out yet. I'm trying to practice the virtue of patience here.

I hope everyone has a delightful day![/quote]

Sorry to hear about the passing of your uncle. Loosing someone is never easy but you have a positive outlook on it that life is a cycle and he is no longer suffering.

With respect to you being 10DPO Dollarama tests are ONLY $1 feel free to just use one of them tomorrow morning and let us know:w00t: (**I'm not being pushing or anything but hurry up and start testing already!!!!!**:hehe:)[/quote]

You are pushy, but I like that quality b/c I'm like that at times (all the time)! Maybe, I'll test tomorrow morning, but I'll have to think about it some more.

MrsM - I liked your story about the flying food. It was great!

Kirsty - Your story about the signs was a little weird, but maybe the universe is telling you something. Hopefully, the cyst will get straightened out and you will be off to the races again. It sounds like you've been reading tons of books and I think that's always helpful.

RE: July/August 2ww club

MrsMtobe — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 11:32:50 GMT

[quote][b]SofaQueen (8/7/2008)[/b][hr]Good Morning Ladies! I just skimmed through the last few pages of stuff, so I'm not totally up to speed today.

MrsM - Sorry to hear you are having a rough time with your hubby. I don't have any advice, but I think you have the courage and strength to get through this.

Janelle - hopefully you can get started with the BD'ing next month!

I hope everyone has a delightful day![/quote]

I'm sorry to hear about your uncle passing. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family.

My fingers are crossed for you for a BFP soon!! Keep us updated!!!

RE: July/August 2ww club

MrsMtobe — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 11:31:35 GMT

good morning everyone!

I slept in since I dont have to be a nanny until 3pm today. I get to see the kids routine for supper and bedtime.

Thank-you for all your support, advice and encouragement. I don't know how I'd get through my day without all of you here to talk with. Sadly, I talk more with you all then I do with my husband, but I'm very thankful for you all because it's like therapy for me. It's been very therapeutic getting it all out with you all - although I feel emotionally drained, I also feel like things are getting clearer for me.

RE: July/August 2ww club

muirhead — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 11:21:55 GMT

[quote][b]SofaQueen (8/7/2008)[/b][hr]Good Morning Ladies! I just skimmed through the last few pages of stuff, so I'm not totally up to speed today.

MrsM - Sorry to hear you are having a rough time with your hubby. I don't have any advice, but I think you have the courage and strength to get through this.

Janelle - hopefully you can get started with the BD'ing next month!

I hope everyone has a delightful day![/quote]

Sorry to hear about the passing of your uncle. Loosing someone is never easy but you have a positive outlook on it that life is a cycle and he is no longer suffering.

RE: July/August 2ww club

muirhead — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 11:18:19 GMT

[quote][b]kiwi25 (8/7/2008)[/b][hr]My good news is that, for whatever reason, be it the extra vitamin B6, the diet free of all junk food, added sugar, refined flour & most dairy (recommended by a couple of books I've been reading as helpful for pcos/cysts), I *think* I am starting to feel a little better :) I can still feel the cyst when I move certain ways (hard to describe, but I swear I can feel it), but by and large, the out-and-out pain seems to have lessened a little. My waking temps have also been above the coverline for 5 days now, and quite high (98.5) for the last two, so I'm thinking the progesterone is kicking in and hopefully helping things :)[/quote]

Good to hear that things are looking up for your Kirsty and that you are feeling better. Its funny how when we focus on something other then the "task" at hand things seem to start falling into place/working!! Its just a matter of us actually focusing on something else...which for me right now is impossible!!!!!!

RE: July/August 2ww club

NatalieP — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 11:12:44 GMT

[quote][b]SofaQueen (8/7/2008)[/b][hr]Thanks ladies for the support!

Do you ladies have big plans for the weekend?[/quote]

Going to Niagara Falls today with DH.
Tomorrow we're going to visit the in-laws.
Saturday visiting my SIL and BIL as they need the nursery painted and some baby furniture put together... DH will take care of both those things, while I just sit and chat lol
Sunday I plan on just having a relaxing day, before my week vacation ends and I'm back to work on Monday :(

Any chance you'll test earlier than Sunday???

RE: July/August 2ww club

MrsSofaQueen — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 10:49:08 GMT

Thanks ladies for the support!

Do you ladies have big plans for the weekend?

RE: July/August 2ww club

NatalieP — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 10:48:10 GMT

I'm sorry to hear about your uncle, Candace. May he RIP.

Kirsty... I'm so glad to hear that you're feeling better!
That's awesome news.

Jenn... any updates? Patiently waiting.

RE: July/August 2ww club

kiwi25 — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 10:41:57 GMT

[quote][b]SofaQueen (8/7/2008)[/b][hr]Good Morning Ladies! I just skimmed through the last few pages of stuff, so I'm not totally up to speed today.

MrsM - Sorry to hear you are having a rough time with your hubby. I don't have any advice, but I think you have the courage and strength to get through this.

Janelle - hopefully you can get started with the BD'ing next month!

I hope everyone has a delightful day![/quote]

Candace, I'm sorry for your family's loss.

RE: July/August 2ww club

MrsSofaQueen — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 10:36:20 GMT

Good Morning Ladies! I just skimmed through the last few pages of stuff, so I'm not totally up to speed today.

MrsM - Sorry to hear you are having a rough time with your hubby. I don't have any advice, but I think you have the courage and strength to get through this.

Janelle - hopefully you can get started with the BD'ing next month!

I hope everyone has a delightful day!

RE: July/August 2ww club

montana007 — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 10:34:47 GMT

[quote][b]kiwi25 (8/7/2008)[/b][hr]Good morning, girls :)

Mrs. M - you sound like you have done a lot of the hardest kind of soul searching. My hope for you, whatever happens, is that the courage, sense of humour and strength of will that you have continually demonstrated for as long as I have 'known' you on CB continue to serve you well through whatever lies ahead. I read something the other day that went something like "The tide of life is very rough sometimes, but each storm ridden through makes us a better captain of our souls." You know we are all here for you no matter what.

Jenn - I am waiting anxiously for a testing update! That also goes for anyone else who is due in the next few days (temporarily blanking on who that includes)

My good news is that, for whatever reason, be it the extra vitamin B6, the diet free of all junk food, added sugar, refined flour & most dairy (recommended by a couple of books I've been reading as helpful for pcos/cysts), I *think* I am starting to feel a little better :) I can still feel the cyst when I move certain ways (hard to describe, but I swear I can feel it), but by and large, the out-and-out pain seems to have lessened a little. My waking temps have also been above the coverline for 5 days now, and quite high (98.5) for the last two, so I'm thinking the progesterone is kicking in and hopefully helping things :)[/quote]

Oooh, Good news!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RE: July/August 2ww club

kiwi25 — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 10:31:05 GMT

Good morning, girls :)

Jenn - I am waiting anxiously for a testing update! That also goes for anyone else who is due in the next few days (temporarily blanking on who that includes)

RE: July/August 2ww club

Summer07 — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 10:29:51 GMT

MrsM,

I have only read a couple of your posts and am not sure of your whole situation with your husband. All I can say is I am so sorry for what you are going through right now. I can only imagine the pain you are in and my thoughts are with you. I hope you find the path in life that leads you to happiness as I believe you deserve it more than anyone. Sending you big hugs.

RE: July/August 2ww club

NatalieP — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 10:21:13 GMT

Mrs M,

I don't know you, or your husband, but from what you have described to me... this is not a marriage.

You are more alone married, than you are single.

I KNOW you don't deserve this.
It's not fair.

And you're right... things won't change when you get pregnant.

I really hope for your sake, he pulls his socks up and realizes he is going to lose the most important, most amazing woman in his life.
Sometimes it takes losing that person to realize the mistakes he's made.

Good luck bella!! We are here for you to vent.
And even though we don't know you, we all love and support you.

RE: July/August 2ww club

MrsMtobe — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 00:28:41 GMT

As for counselling - I demanded he go to a counsellor last year before we got married. In fact, he ruined our planned Christmas trip home to spend the holidays with my parents - he left me on December 23rd - the day we were leaving to drive there. When he came back on christmas day, I demanded he seek counselling for his issues so that we could then make headway with other issues. He agreed to go. Months went by, and he never went. And I begged him to go, often. He finally went. He went twice in May. I guess he thought he got cured cuz he never went back. *eyeroll* In reality, he lied to the counsellor, made me out to be the bad guy and when his counsellor gave him a book to read and "homework" to do (writing out answers to questions) he came home, and put the book and homework on the table and said - there's a book for you to read from my counsellor and some work to do. Apparently, I need to see a counsellor because I'm "angry". The counsellor gave him the book to read and the work to complete - NOT ME!!!!! Ummm I don't f*cking think so buddy! And, umm, no f*cking wonder I'm angry - you (meaning my husband) are the cause of my anger!!!!!!

I can't justify spending $100 - $150 per visit to have someone sit there while I wait for my husband to talk to me. I'm not asking for the world here. I'm not asking for a mansion or expensive trips around the world. I'm not asking for a new car, or a fur coat or huge diamonds. I'm not putting us in the poor house because I want to keep up with the Jones' down the street. I'm asking my husband to talk with me - to communicate. And he won't, regardless if it is just me or with a counsellor present. He just wont. I will not go to see a marriage counsellor until he assumes responsibility for the issues driving us apart. And he refuses to be responsible for anything and everything. And until he sees clearly, that he's caused the issues, and accepts responsibility for them, and accepts that he has to make changes within himself and actually makes those changes, with the help of a psychologist, then I will not waste my time or money or energy to save a marriage that only I want to save. Why should I bother anymore???

If my husband can't figure out that I'm dead serious about this - then he's pretty thick headed. I mean, I've created an ad for kijiji looking for a sperm donor for crying out loud - and I've read it aloud in his presence and I know he heard every word of it. He was sitting 5 feet away from me at the time. If that's not enough of a whack on the head to say "wake the hell up here buddy" then I don't know what is!

RE: July/August 2ww club

MrsMtobe — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 00:11:55 GMT

We haven't tried separating - officially. He's left on numerous occasions - see, when I "force" him to talk, he walks out. He leaves not just for an hour, he leaves and spends the night in a hotel. Numerous times over the last 3 years. I left him for a week in May to go spend time with my dying father. It was the first time in a long time, and the only time, I didn't cry because of what my husband has been doing to me and our marriage.

When my husband leaves - I even get in the car and follow him - he leaves on foot and takes a bus. I've followed busses - I've begged him to come back and talk - only to be made a fool in public. Why he comes back and tortures me further is beyond me. Maybe it's a sick twisted reason - and I probably don't really want to know the answer.

I refuse to be a fool any longer. I refuse to be the one to leave. He can leave because I vowed that I will not chase him any longer. The minute he walks out the door again, I will have our locks changed. A separation will never be a trial separation for me - it will be the one that leads to a divorce.

I've told my husband numerous time that I didn't need him in my life, but that I wanted him in my life and that there was a big difference between the 2 terms. See, I don't need him to protect me from anyone or anything. I don't need him to support me financially. I don't need him to open a jar, or carry a heavy basket of clothing. I'm a strong, intelligent and capable independent woman.

I'm close to saying I'm totally and completely done. My head says leave him and leave fast. My heart has always said, give him another chance - but my heart hasn't said that the last few weeks. My heart and my head are almost in sync - both telling me to cut my losses and for us to go our separate ways. It will take something drastic to keep us together now, unfortunately.

RE: July/August 2ww club

jmhein — Wed, 06 Aug 2008 23:22:47 GMT

Oh Mrs. M, I am SO sorry for what you're going through!

In a way though what you are going thru now is empowering, you are seeing that you deserve better and you're tired of putting up with $hit!!! It often is a long, painful journey to get to that point, but you are there now, and you need to take action!

What the action is... depends on your gut feeling. If you think the marriage deserves a final chance, if you think your husband DOES deep down, have what it takes to make you happy... would you consider marriage counseling? I know you have talked about fertility counseling, but it sounds to me like the greater relationship needs to be looked at in addition to fertility issues.

If you need to clear your head, to see how you would feel being on your own, and to REALLY show your husband that you are seriously ready for a change, I like Muirhead's suggestion of a separation. Sometimes distance is what two people need to see exactly how they feel about eachother.

OR, if you are done, done and done... you could leave him altogether.

I am not sure which option you want to go with, you will know in your heart which one is best. BUt know that you DO deserve a man who has YOUR best interest's at heart, and know that something needs to change, the same old routine will no longer work for you. And finally, know that we are here for you to listen and maybe give a hug!

***HUGS****